Original Title: Zcash Founder on Privacy, AI, and How ZEC is "Encrypted Bitcoin"
Original Source: Bankless
Plain Language Blockchain
More than a decade after the birth of cryptocurrencies, we now stand at a delicate crossroads: on one side is the full-scale entry of Wall Street capital and the rapid advancement of underlying technologies; on the other side, the original Cypherpunk ideals struggle under the weight of complex user experiences and regulatory pressures.
In this interview, Zooko, founder of Zcash and a pioneer in cryptographic privacy, shares his deep insights into the current state of the industry. He not only reflects on whether the crypto movement is repeating the mistakes of Linux, but also delves into how privacy is evolving from a "technical feature" into a "survival option" in an era of rampant AI computing power.
By deconstructing the user experience logic of Moxie and analyzing the governance experiments of Zcash, Zuko has painted a vision of the future that transcends mere financial speculation and returns to digital sovereignty. This is not just a technical discussion, but also a metaphysical exploration of how human civilization can maintain free will under high-pressure surveillance environments.
I. Reflection on the Current State of the Encryption Movement: Are We Repeating the Mistakes of Linux?
HostZuko, welcome back to Bankless. You've been deeply involved in the crypto industry for over a decade, and you've been working on Zcash for 13 years. Looking back from the perspective of 2026, do you think our crypto movement has achieved its original goals? Have we been successful?
ZukoTo be honest, this is a leading question, and you probably weren't expecting a positive or affirmative answer from me. Hearing you ask this actually makes me feel a bit discouraged and pessimistic. It reminds me of the history of Linux. Back then, Linux was a great movement aimed at empowering ordinary people and breaking down technical barriers. But looking at the current landscape, it has largely become a kind of underlying software for Google's servers.
HostIt sounds like the idealism of the Linux movement has faded.
ZukoBecause it has not genuinely helped ordinary users, nor has it scaled sufficiently to empower the masses. Although software engineers still passionately use it, Linux today has not substantially improved the digital lives of non-experts. If we allow this trend to continue, cryptocurrency in 15 years may face the same fate: only a few giant financial institutions leveraging blockchain to optimize costs, while 99.9% of ordinary people gain no real power or benefits from the technology. That would be a poor outcome.
HostSo, in the past decade, what do you think are the real advances we've made?
ZukoI'm a technologist. What I'm most pleased about is that cryptocurrencies have funded a large number of top-tier cryptographic technologies. For example, Zcash pioneered zero-knowledge proofs (ZKP), which were later pushed even further by the Ethereum ecosystem. Without the funding and organizational structure provided by cryptocurrencies, DARPA, universities, or big corporations would not have developed these achievements in the past decade.
HostSo, in your view, the biggest victory is the advancement of cryptography itself, rather than the current market size?
Zuko: Yes. But this is actually a kind of "subtle compliment." It's like we improved the Linux kernel, but didn't really make the world a better place.
HostSome people may argue that price charts and Wall Street's entry into the market represent victory. For example, Bitcoin becoming a government-free digital gold, or Larry Fink's push for ETFs and RWA (Tokenization of Real-World Assets).
ZukoI see these as ways to improve Wall Street. It would certainly be good if it could improve the lives of ordinary people in some way that I care about, but such signs are not obvious at the moment.
II. User Experience (UX) Bottlenecks: Why Moxie's Criticism Still Rings True?
HostWhat important aspects in the cryptocurrency field do you think we have overlooked?
ZukoIt's definitely part of the user experience envisioned by the Cypherpunks. I often mention Moxie Marlinspike's (founder of Signal) perspective. He once pointed out that the Cypherpunk dream has been stuck because there is a fatal flaw in their logic. Their approach was: first, to create tools that work well for themselves; second, to teach everyone else in the world to become just like them.
HostThis "elitist" path is indeed difficult to make accessible to the general public.
ZukoMoxie says this will never succeed. You must provide people with tools that fit their current situation without forcing them to change. If you're serving fewer than 100 million users, you're wasting your time because you're not making an impact on the world. The current cryptocurrency industry is repeating this mistake: we've created complex systems that protect freedom, privacy, and autonomy, and then expect ordinary people to learn how to use them.
HostTherefore, cognitive load has become the biggest obstacle.
ZukoThat's right. If the cognitive load is close to zero, that's a good user experience. I remember Brian Armstrong once told me his strategy for dealing with regulation: have at least 100 million users. It's the same logic as Moxie's.
HostFrom a long-term perspective, Ethereum is trying to expand into areas beyond decentralized finance, such as decentralized identity, computation, and AI. How far do you think this Cypherpunk vision can go?
ZukoI hope it can go all the way to the bottom, because it concerns whether our future generations can grow up in a more stable and civilized society. Signal's success has inspired me. Signal's idea is that the user interface (UX) should reflect the underlying reality. If you are chatting with a non-encrypted software, an honest UI should display your avatar, your friend's avatar, the CEO's avatar, and the system administrator's avatar in the chat window.
Host: This sounds very intuitive and terrifying.
ZukoIf the CIA is eavesdropping, their avatar should also appear. Signal simply corrected this "honesty." Current social platforms, such as Twitter or Telegram, are actually "honeypots." If you're chatting with five friends in a Telegram group, since it's not end-to-end encrypted by default, Pavel Durov's face should actually appear in the chat window. People need privacy, and technically it's possible; the key is whether we can provide an interaction experience that's not inferior to that of the Silicon Valley giants.
III. The Privacy Paradox in the Age of AI: When Algorithms Can Read Your Financial Intentions
HostAre you optimistic about the future? Especially in the current era where AI is changing everything.
ZukoI am optimistic. Although AI might make the installation and configuration of Linux easier and no longer a UX challenge, AI also brings new risks.
HostDo you mean AI's manipulation of information?
ZukoA few days ago, there was a case in which a user asked ChatGPT to proofread a tutorial. The tutorial explained how to use disposable phone number services to protect personal information. In addition to correcting errors, ChatGPT also proactively deleted all content related to disposable phone numbers and cryptocurrencies, citing the reason that these tools "could potentially be used for abuse and fraud."
Host: This is indeed very dystopian.
ZukoThis is the nightmare scenario where AI doesn't provide what you want. Most current AI follows the Web2 business model: relying on advertising and user lock-in. When AI is deeply integrated with your email, calendar, and financial data, it can not only predict your behavior, but also influence your intentions.
HostSo, what different solutions can cryptocurrencies offer?
ZukoCryptocurrencies offer a completely new funding model. Although it is still in the experimental stage, it attempts to break away from the extractive logic of Web2. We need to establish a positive cycle of "pay-to-use + open competition + no capture."
HostZcash's recent price performance has been very impressive. Does this also reflect a shift in market sentiment?
ZukoYes. Such a large-scale price signal is hard to fake, and it proves that people truly care about privacy. As AI tools can easily link on-chain addresses, the originally transparent ledger has become extremely dangerous. People are beginning to realize that privacy is not an "optional feature," but a necessity for survival.
IV. The Metaphysics of Value Storage: Privacy Options and the Mystery of "Static Value"
HostRegarding privacy protection, many people have misconceptions. They often interpret privacy as "breaking the link during transactions," similar to the concept of a mixer (coin mixer).
ZukoThis is exactly what I want to correct. Many people try to transfer from their Ethereum addresses to new ones, thinking that some operations in between will make them safe. However, in the AI era, this "value in flight" hardly achieves real privacy. AI can easily uncover your disguises by correlating your intentions and signals from both ends.
HostWhat should the correct logic be?
ZukoYou can only obtain privacy from "value at rest." I have a slightly metaphysical perspective: if you hold ETH and plan to transfer it, your intent is clear, and AI can read it. But if you choose to convert part of your assets into ZEC for long-term holding, with no clear next steps, the AI will be effectively blinded.
Host: Because the act of holding itself breaks the continuity of the intention.
ZukoThat's right. This is the "privacy option." You don't need to hold it forever, but you need to hold it without the intention of using it in the future. Like your checking account, you don't spend it all at once; you maintain a certain balance. From the perspective of adversarial information theory, it's reasonable to keep one to two months of living expenses in your privacy pool.
HostThe example of the Zashi wallet integrating with Near Intents that you mentioned earlier seems to demonstrate the practicality of this "resting privacy."
ZukoThat example made a big impression on me. When I needed to make an anonymous payment for my Proton Mail subscription, I didn't have to ask the other party to accept Zcash. I simply scanned a QR code in the Zashi wallet and completed the payment through Near Intents. From the outside, it appeared as just a regular transaction, while the source of my funds and my personal information remained securely hidden in the privacy pool. This is the power of prioritizing user experience.
Five: Zcash's Governance Experiment: Development Fund, Cross-link, and the Debate over "Encrypted Bitcoin"
HostLet's talk about Zcash governance. Zcash has a well-known "Development Fund" mechanism, which is considered sacrilege in the Bitcoin community.
ZukoZcash emulates Bitcoin's 21 million total supply and halving mechanism, but differs in that 20% of the new coin supply is allocated to a development fund. As the ZEC price increases, the size of this fund grows significantly, providing ample resources for the protocol's ongoing development and helping avoid the "death spiral" that plagues many projects during bear markets.
HostHowever, this mechanism has also sparked considerable controversy, especially regarding the distribution of power.
ZukoYes. Zcash's social contract undergoes significant discussion every four years. We've evolved from funding the founding team, to funding a non-profit organization, and now to being governed by a committee and token voting. As an experiment, I'm glad to see it trying different models.
HostRecently, there has been a lot of discussion about the "Encrypted Bitcoin" meme. What's your take on this hashtag?
ZukoI really like this meme. The fewer the words, the more powerful it is.
HostBut some people are also concerned that the Cross-link mechanism you are promoting (adding staking on top of mining) might undermine Bitcoin's pure PoW image.
ZukoI'm trying a "judo"-style response. Cross-link is not about becoming PoS, but about reinforcing the sustainability and credibility of the 21 million supply cap. The long-term viability of Bitcoin's 21 million supply cap is actually unclear, because when block rewards approach zero, it remains uncertain whether transaction fees alone can sustain the security network.
HostZcash attempts to address the dual issues of privacy and long-term security at the protocol level.
ZukoYes. Due to issues in its underlying design, Ethereum finds it very difficult to add a privacy layer without leaking information. It's like putting tape on the bottom of a leaky boat. The birth of Zcash was precisely to make privacy an inherent property of the blockchain.
HostZuko, thank you for your sharing today. Your adherence to the Cypherpunk values is admirable.
ZukoThank you. Finally, I want to say to the audience: go ahead and convert an amount of value equal to what you have in your checking account into ZEC and store it in your private wallet. You're not only protecting yourself, but also contributing to building a better future. Let's all be "Zodlings" together (a colloquial term used by the Zcash community for holders of ZEC).
HostGo to Zodle, mates. Of course, this isn't financial advice; the crypto market is highly risky, so proceed with caution.
Through in-depth conversations with Zuko, it becomes evident that the true value of cryptocurrency does not lie in how much settlement cost it can save for Wall Street, but rather in whether it can build an unbreakable firewall for individuals in the digital age. In today's world, where AI algorithms are increasingly sophisticated and can easily "read minds" and infer transactional intentions, privacy is no longer the obsessive concern of a few geeks, but a fundamental tool for protecting individual autonomy.
The logic of "static value privacy" represented by Zcash challenges the traditional, outdated notion of privacy as merely an intermediate process in transactions, elevating it instead to a "privacy option." Although there are still many challenges in terms of user experience and governance pathways, as Zuko emphasized, the vision of Cypherpunk can only be truly realized when the cognitive burden of privacy tools is reduced to zero and they can serve hundreds of millions of ordinary users.
In this new frontier built by code, "Zodling" is not just a means of storing wealth, but also a silent vote on digital sovereignty.
Click to learn about BlockBeats' job openings.
Welcome to join the official Lulin BlockBeats community:
Telegram Subscription Group:https://t.me/theblockbeats
Telegram discussion group:https://t.me/BlockBeats_App
Official Twitter account:https://twitter.com/BlockBeatsAsia